logo Flying High With Electric Power!

The Ampeer ON-LINE!
May 2023
The Club Newsletter of the Electric Flyers Only, Inc
AMA Charter 2354
Walled Lake, MI, USA

Editor: Ken Myers

Fly the Future - Fly Electric!

What's On This Site:
Site Table of Contents

President:Vice-President:Secretary-Treasurer:
Ken MyersKeith ShawRick Sawicki
1911 Bradshaw Ct.2756 Elmwood5089 Ledgewood Ct. W.
Commerce Twp., MI 48390Ann Arbor, MI 48104Commerce Twp., MI 48382
(248) 669-8124(734) 973-6309(248) 685-7056
Board of Directors:Board of Directors:Ampeer Editor
David StacerArthur DeaneKen Myers
PO Box 7531321690 Bedford Dr.1911 Bradshaw Ct.
Salem, MI 48175Northville, MI 48167Commerce Twp., MI 48390
(313) 318-3288(248) 348-2058(248) 669-8124
Upcoming EFO Flying Meeting: Saturday, May 6, 2023 Time: 11 a.m.
Place: Midwest RC Society 7 Mile Rd. Flying Field

What's In This Issue?

A Luton Minor Ready for the Air Denny Sumner shares photos of his completed Linton Minor. The Dreamer Takes Flight Keith Shaw shares info on his Dreamer biplane's first flights.
A New Version Rises From An Old AT-6 Kit Steve Labuta discuss how he redesigned and old AT-6 kit into a new version for electric power. Motor Mounting Out Runner Motors Joe Hass describes how he mounts outrunner motors in his planes.
Innov8tive Designs - You've Gotta Check 'em Out! Ken Myers discusses why he uses this Super Supplier! Comment Regarding Hanging Wings with Wire Coat Hangers Jim Blanner shares a warning about using metal hangers to hang wings from water pipes for storage.
Using DeWalt 20V Power Packs to Charge Small LiPo Battery Packs Ned Watt discusses this topic. My Old 1/6-scale Cub Gary Gullikson discusses this veteran flier and what he's been up to.
How to Find the Specs on an Unknown Motor Ken Myers explains how to approximately spec an unknown out runner motor. Scientists Find the Holy Grail: the Reason Why Lithium-Metal Batteries Fail Arthur Deane sent along the link to this interesting article.
The Upcoming Keith Shaw Birthday Party Electric Fly-in 2023 Event Announcement. 39th Annual Mid-America Electric Flies 2023 Event Announcement.
Upcoming E-vents
Send Ken email

A Luton Minor Ready for the Air
From Denny Sumner via email

Keith and Ken,

     Here are some pictures of my Luton Minor.

     It has an all up weight of 10.6 ounces.

     It is powered by a Cobra C2204/40 outrunner and a 2S 800mAh LiPo battery.

     The pilot and engine are 3D printed.

     The covering is Ultracote Parklight.

     It was fun to go back in time to build a 50 year old kit.

Best Regards,
Dennis Sumner

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The Dreamer Takes Flight
From Keith Shaw via e-mail

     We have had an unusually calm and sunny (but cold) Spring, so I have been able to get out with a number of my planes to get my "thumbs up to speed" for the season.

     Yesterday, (April 10, 2023 KM), I took the Dreamer out for a test hop, and am glad to report it went well.

     It flew like I expected, sort of a souped-up Pitts Special.

     Minor control throw and trim changes were done at the field before a second hop.

     The only exception to the fun was that it sounded like it had a turbo-prop on it due to a bad bearing in the motor. It was disconcerting to be flying a cute little biplane, but with the shrieking sound of an Irish banshee. :-(

     The bearings have been replaced with NON-Chinese units.

     I am hoping to get out today or tomorrow for a few more flights to explore the aerobatic envelope. This time I will take my camera.

Keith

     The following photos are from earlier Ampeer's this year, 2023. Enjoy - Ken

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A New Version Rises From An Old AT-6 Kit
From Steve Labuta via email

AT-6 Texan Build A complete redo of the JEMCO North American AT-6. Now lighter and for electric power.

Hi Ken,

     Wednesday nights are bad for me, so I can not attend your meeting, but I thought I should share my latest project with you.

     If you remember 2 years ago I won a JEMCO AT-6 Texan kit at the MidAm event. (That was a brand-new in the box kit that I'd donated for a Mid-Am raffle prize that year. KM)

     I finally started digging into it this winter and discovered that a few critical parts were missing and are not entirely shown on the plans.
(Oh dear, I never had it out of the box from the time I got it. KM)

     Also, the design looked rather heavy and over-engineered for electric power.

     I decided to redesign an AT-6 myself.

     Parkflyer Plastics sells a canopy for the JEMCO AT-6 and a fake engine of all sizes, so I decided it would be the same size as the JEMCO.

     I designed the plane using WingHelper, devFus, and devCad like I did my Mach-1 and other designs.

     It has a 55-inch wing span and I'm starting with a 760 Kv Tempest motor from Innov8tive Designs and a 4S LiPo for power.

     The shaped parts were cut on my CNC machine.

     I am getting close to completing the wood-building stage.

     It seems that I have over-engineered my design as well.

     All components, including a 4000mAh battery, but less covering weigh about 4 lb. already

     I've posted pictures of the build on my Flickr account. (Steve's Flickr Link) I'll keep updating the pictures as I make more progress.

     It should be flying sometime this spring, and if it survives until July, I'll bring it to the MidAm for everyone to see.

     Also, I have not used any of the parts in the original kit. If you know anyone who would like the original kit as is, let me know.

Thanks,
Steve Labuta

(Here Are a Few Screen Grabs From His Linked Account - Check it out - Really Great Job! - KM)

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Motor Mounting Out Runner Motors
From Joe Hass via email

     I routinely use pre drilled nylon spacers from the local hardware store with hardened socket head cap screws to get proper motor spacing.

     Use the biggest outer diameter that will fit with the I.D. to match the bolts.

     While not the best picture, as the airplane is currently hung from the ceiling in the garage (hence the rope), you can see the typical layout.

     Look in the specialty hardware section. Sometimes they are called bushings.

     For my STAGGERWING I had steel spacers custom made. The spacer was almost 2 inches long and I needed all the weight I could get in the nose.

     I think the was the book was mentioned in the AMPEER. (It was. KM)

     Send my Get Well Wishes to Mark Rittinger.

Joe Hass
248-321-7934

(Thanks for the reminder about this method. I've used it for years and years, and it works well. I get my "stand offs" at Lowes. KM)

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Innov8tive Designs
You've Gotta Check 'em Out!

By Ken Myers

Disclaimer:
     I was not asked by anyone to write this.
     I am only a VERY, VERY SATISFIED CUSTOMER!
Ken Myers

     Lucien Miller, Mr. Innov8tive Designs, sends out email updates if you subscribe. I recommend that you do!

     This information is from his March 2023 newsletter email.

New Electric Power System Informational Series:
A Look Inside Electronic Speed Controllers

     First, we would like to thank you for being subscribed to our company's email newsletter system This is a great way for us to get important information out to our customers about new products, featured customer builds and other important information. When it comes to Electric Power Systems, one of the most important things that people often look for is educational information that helps them understand all the ins and outs of electric power, along with explanations of all the new terms, numbers, and other information.

     In this installment of our Power System Informational Series, we take a look at the ESCs we typically use in our hobby. Brushless Electronic Speed Controllers are the most misunderstood and overlooked component in an R/C Electric Power System. These little marvels of modern electronics handle huge amounts of power and current, while switching on and off at a rate of thousands of times per second, all in an effort to make a brushless motor spin a prop to power our model aircraft. In this informational article we will look at the basic function of Brushless Speed Controllers, the parts that make up an ESC, talk about many of the features and adjustable parameters that ESC's offer and dispel some of the myths and misinformation surrounding them.

     It is our hope that you find this information useful and keep a copy of it as a reference for future projects. If there are other specific topics that you would like additional information about, please let us know, and we will do our best to add it to this informational series.

     Here is the link to the mentioned PDF.

     He also has another article, "Motor Part Numbers: What do they mean?" and it is found here in PDF format.

     I high recommend that you take some time to explore his Website and consider purchasing from him.

     My favorite part of his site are the motor voltage and prop tables. He actually tests all of the motor types that he sells. What a useful undertaking! Thank you Lucien!

     This is the link to the Cobra C-2826/12 Brushless Motor, Kv=760.

     His motors, of the same physical size and weight, come in many various winds. All the data you need to know about the motor is provided in its description.

     Here is the link to the battery and prop chart for this motor. It is extensive.

     At the top of the chart is a table with the pertinent data.

     He prop tested this motor with 4 different voltages; 11.1V, 14.8V, 18.5V and 22.2V.

     This is the chart for the 14.8V testing.

     You know that I use these voltage and prop charts all of the time in selecting power systems for my planes, as well as other peopleÕs planes.

     Thank you Mr. Miller!

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Comment Regarding Hanging Wings with Wire Coat Hangers
From Jim Blanner via email

     In the article "Wing Storage - What took me so long to think of this?" by Joe Hass, he suggested a method to hang wings from pipes using coat hangers.

     Jim responded with the following information.

Hi Ken

     One thing to consider is that using wire coat hangers can, after a while, lead to a point of corrosion on the copper pipe (dissimilar metals & wire rust); which can sprout a leak - it's happened to me.

Jim

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Using DeWalt 20V Power Packs to Charge Small LiPo Battery Packs
From Ned Watt via email

     For those flying small aircraft (or large aircraft with small batteries), consider the DeWalt 20 volt power pack and one of the small, but very capable, ISDT chargers.

     I have been using a non-OEM DeWalt 6.0Ah pack (two packs for less than half the price of the DewWalt pack, branded "Waitley") and an adapter that snaps onto the pack, easily available on the internet.

     The ISDT charger is rated for over 20 volts. A very light and compact set up for those not needing to refill large packs. With two 850mAh packs and an Eratix, I can fly all day without lugging around a big lead acid power source.

     Thanks for your newsletter. Always worth reading.

Ned Watts

(Thank you sir! KM)

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My Old 1/6-scale Cub
From Gary Gullikson via e-mail

     I was surprised to see pics of my old Sig (1/6 scale) J-3 Cub in the Ampeer.

     There were a number of subsequent changes in power and RC system stuff, landing gear, cabin details, etc.

     The old Astro Flight geared brushed motor and speed control was eventually replaced by a brushless Cobra 3515 motor and speed control.

     The scalish E-Flite metal landing gear was too heavy and bungees were fiddly.

     I had a bad crash, and was given another built up Sig 1/6 Cub, transferred guts from crash and have been flying the "donor" Cub for years.

     I haven't been very active flying this year because of Covid and fire danger field shut downs, hot weather and winds, and health and mobility problems at age 83.

     I have a 30 mile round trip to get to the OCMA club field. Dues are now $125. To pack up and get to the field only to find wind problems and unannounced fire helicopter operations has been a problem.

     We also share the field with commercial events. Our field is part of Orange County CA Parks Dept., we have to be very careful not to lose favor with the Parks Dept. I have been flying mostly foamies, i.e., Dynam WACO, a Park Zone Reliant, and getting ready to fly a Dynam PT-17 as well as a discontinued Tower Hobbies Miss America P-51.

     I hope to see Dynam replacement parts and models become available again from Bitgo and others.

     I want to get back to building Pat Tritle designs, and I have his DC-3 started.

     Keep up the good work and have fun.

Gary Gullikson

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How to Find the Specs on an Unknown Motor From Pete Waters via email

Ken,

     I have a large brushless motor, from my son-in-law, and I think it would be ideal on my pattern ship, the AltairÉ but how can I get an idea on its numbers?

Pete

Hi Pete,

     Are their any numbers or lettering on it?

     What is its weight in grams?

     We can start there.

Later,
Ken

     It weighs 378g.

     Diameter of "black" painted outrun is 50mm, length over all is 60mm shaft 6mm and length of armature, ie the black pained is 30mm all with National Calibrated Harbor Freight filled plastic digital caliper!

Hi Pete,

     I think we have the size equivalent.

     It is similar to the Cobra C-4130 series of motors.

     Now we need to narrow down the Kv so that we can use the Innov8tive Designs tables to get the cell count and prop choices.

     How to measure a brushless motors Kv, motor constant is found here:

     How to do it using a drill press is in the section titled "Measuring a motor's Kv Using the Drill Press Method".

     Once we know the Kv, we can use the tables, like this one, to figure out the prop and number of cells.

     I just picked one from the 4130 series to show you a sample of the tables, but when we know the Kv we can narrow it down.

Later,
Ken

     I will run the drill pressÉ for the Kv. With the 3W/g its around 1200 watts!

Pete

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Scientists Find the Holy Grail: the Reason Why Lithium-Metal Batteries Fail
From Arthur Deane via e-mail

     Arthur sent me the above link to this Popular Science article. As with all of the Popular Science articles, it is not too technical, but it does have some interesting information.

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The Upcoming Keith Shaw Birthday Party Electric Fly-in 2023

     The Balsa Butchers are hosting the "Keith Shaw Birthday Party Electric Fly-In", for the 21st year, at their field near Coldwater, MI. The event takes place on Saturday, June 3, 2023. It is a one day event.

     The event consists of Open Electric Flying with a "Special Guest of Honor Theme", Happy Birthday Keith Shaw [June 6].

     Enjoy a day with the "Pioneering Master of Electric R/C Flight". 8 a.m. - 4 p.m., Saturday. NO LANDING FEE! Donations for field maintenance and lunch appreciated.

     For additional information contact;
Contest Director: Dave Grife - E-mail: grifesd@yahoo.com
or Phone: 517-279-8445
Please e-mail or call with any questions.

     The field will be open for guests to fly on Sunday as well.

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39th Annual Mid-America Electric Flies 2023 &
FREE Open Air Swap Meet, Saturday ONLY (See Swap Meet Note at the end of this announcement.)

AMA Sanctioned Event (Proof of AMA membership required to fly - Sorry MAAC membership is no longer accepted)
Saturday, July 8 & Sunday, July 9, 2023

Hosted by the:
Ann Arbor Falcons, Electric Flyers Only and The Midwest RC Society
The 7 Mile Rd. Flying Site, Salem Twp., MI, is Provided by the: Midwest R/C Society

Contest Directors are:
Ken Myers phone (248) 669-8124 or email kmyersefo@mac.org

Website for updates:
theampeer.org for updates & info
Keith Shaw (734) 973-6309
Flying both days is at the Midwest R/C Society Flying Field - 7 Mile Rd., Salem Twp., MI

Registration: 9 A.M. Saturday
Event Flying from 10 A.M. to 4 P.M. Saturday
Open Flying 10 A.M. Until You Leave Sunday

(Open Flying Saturday after the Event & All Day Sunday
There are NO SCHEDULED EVENTS on Sunday, just open electric flying)

No Pilot Landing Fee
Donations will be gladly accepted

No Parking Donation Will Be Requested from Spectators or Those Participating in Saturday's Open Air Swap Shop
Donations to Midwest will be gladly accepted from Spectators and Open Air Swappers

Awards on Saturday Only!
Best Scale
Most Beautiful
Best Mini-Electric
Best Multi-motor
Best Sport Plane
Foam Flurry for NCM aircraft
CDs' Choice

Planes Must Fly To Be Considered for Any Award
Plaques for the winner in each category

The Field is Open for Open Flying All Day Friday
Night Flying Possible, Weather Permitting, Friday & Saturday Nights
Field Lunch is provided to pilots and friends (hot dogs, chips, water or pop) Available on Saturday
Field Dinner is provided (Burgers, Brats on Saturday evening for Pilots & Their Guests)
Come and join us for two days of fun and relaxed electric flying.

The NCM (Not Conventional Materials) Event

     Traditionally, model aircraft airframes have been mostly constructed from balsa wood, plywood, spruce, and fiberglass. For the purposes of this meet, NCM airframes are mostly constructed from not conventional materials i.e.; sheet foam, foam board, cardboard, block foam, foam insulation material, etc.

Foam Flurry for NCM aircraft:

     This is a true event. It is based upon the all up/last down event of early electric meets. Any NCM aircraft may be used (no ARF types). Power systems are limited to a maximum of 3S (no paralleling) LiPo batteries or 4S maximum, no paralleling, for A123 packs. All planes qualifying for this event will launch at the same time, and the last one to land will be declared the winner.

VERY IMPORTANT REMINDER FOR 2023 - THE FLYING FIELD ENTRANCE TO THE MIDWEST FLYING FIELD CHANGED FOUR YEARS AGO!

The old entrance to the Midwest RC Society flying field is permanently closed!!! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE IT!!!


This what the flying field entrance looks like.
Please Drive SAFELY

     The field entrance is on the north side of Seven Mile Road about 1.5 Miles west of Currie Rd.
     Entrance is on the north side of Seven Mile Road about 1.6 Miles west of Currie Rd.
     The address is 7621 Seven Mile Road, Northville, MI 48167. The entrance is through a private residence drive and out past the barn.

Directions from Google Maps to the flying field.

     To locate the Midwest R/C Society 7 Mile Rd. flying field, site of the Mid-America Electric Flies, look near top left corner of the map, where the star marks the spot, near Seven Mile Road and Currie Rd.

     Because of their convenient location and the easy drive to the flying field, the Comfort Suites and Holiday Inn Express in Wixom, MI have been added to the hotels' listing. They are only 10 miles northeast of the field and located near I-96 and Wixom Road. See the map-hotel .pdf for more details.

The Open Air Swap Meet - Saturday ONLY

     There is a designated area for swappers. Please check-in at the event registration table before setting up. Someone from registration will point out where you may set up. Bring your own table(s) and chair(s).

     There is no swap meet fee on Saturday. A donation to the Midwest RC Society for the use of their flying field would be greatly appreciated.

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To Reach Ken Myers, you can land mail to the address at the top of the page. My E-mail address is: KMyersEFO@theampeer.org

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